An
exclusive interview with His Holiness the Dalai
Lama Policemen
in mufti swarm around the plush hotel room in Delhi, crackling wirelesses
in hand. Spared routine security checks, we are ushered into an antechamber
and politely asked to waitHis Holiness the Dalai Lama is meeting
a foreign diplomat.
Minutes
(that seem like centuries) later, we are led to an inner suite, a temporary
abode of the Yeshe Norbu ('Wish fulfilling jewel') of Tibet. We await
him with a mixture of awe and reverence compounded by the presence of
his somber attendants. Nothing prepares us for the boisterous, maroon-robed
monk who walks in, greeting everyone loudly and shaking hands warmly all
around. We are finally face to face with the Presence (Kundun in
Tibetan).
The
next hour is spent in communion with the man, his beliefs, his faith,
and of course, his laughter. It seems that His Holiness has perfected
the 'art of laughing', if one may call it that. He uses it to punctuate
philosophical debate, at times to bridge the awkward silence as he thinks
up a suitable reply to a question, but most of all, to convey his innate
joie de vivre. It is infectious and we join in heartily each time
his laughter booms out. We are fortunate to partake of the Dalai Lama's
reservoir of loving-kindness, if only for a few fleeting moments.
You
seem to exist on numerous planesas a world figure, the temporal
and spiritual head of Tibet, a world-renowned spiritual master. Yet you
often refer to yourself as a simple monk. Who is the real you?
I
see myself as a monk first, then as a practitioner of the Nalanda (the
world reknown Buddhist education center of India, established around 200
B.C.) tradition of wisdom. Masters of Nalanda such as Nagarjuna, Aryadeva,
Aryasangha, Dharmakeerti, Chandrakeerti and Shantideva have written the
scriptures that we, as Tibetan Buddhists, study and practice. They are
all my gurus. I feel that I might have interacted with them in previous
lifetimes. When I read their books and meditate upon their names, I feel
a connection. At this point, I don't say that I belong to the Hinayana
or the Mahayana traditions, but to the lineage of Nalanda.
You are called the 'living Buddha'...? The term 'living Buddha' is a translation of the Chinese word 'ho
fu'. In Tibetan, the operative word is 'lama' which means 'guru'.
A guru is someone who is not necessarily a Buddha but is heavy with knowledge.
I believe that previous Dalai Lamas were manifestations of Avalokiteshwara
(the Buddha of compassion) and the fifth Dalai Lama is believed to be
an incarnation of Manjushree. I am fortunate to be the reincarnation
of all these great lamas! (laughs)
Can
anyone become a Buddha? Oh
yes! All sentient beings have the seed of the Buddha within them.
It is also
said that eventually all sentient beings will attain Buddhahood? Yes, this is so because all negative emotions of the mind can be eliminated.
Once the mind is purified, you are a Buddha.
How would you describe the Buddhist concept of shunyata? Shunyata
is different from Buddhahood. It is the ultimate reality of everything.
To purify the mind it is essential to know the nature of reality, which
is shunyata. Negative emotions arise from a misconception of reality.
In order to remove suffering, you have to meditate on shunyata.
What does our world need to become a better place? Undoubtedly
we need to be more compassionate.
How
can we practice compassion? Through awareness! I think that ignorance and afflictive
emotions, called klesh in Sanskrit, give rise to unwanted circumstances.
As far as ignorance is concerned, not just Buddhism, every religion recognizes
it as the source of suffering. All over the world, much effort is put
in education. It is something sacred as it helps to get rid of ignorance.
But we have to be careful about the kind of education we impart to our
children. Now I see well-educated people who are so unhappy. Sometimes,
I think those who use their minds too much are unhappier than the simple
people who don't. Why do they become unhappy? It is because of too much
desire, hatred, and jealousy. The antidote to weaken that is increasing
the right kind of knowledge. I think, perhaps knowledge coupled with a
warm heart brings wisdom.
Compassion, or karuna, stems from wisdom. For instance, animals
with their limited intelligence, are happier and more peaceful than we
are. Even so, I have observed that animals become aggressive during the
mating season because there is now attachment to the mate. Attachment
awakens feelings of klesh within them. Similarly for us, if there
is less attachment and jealousy, we are able to focus within.
I believe that whether a person follows any religion or not is unimportant,
he must have a good heart, a warm heart. This is essential for a happy
life, which is much more important than Buddhahood. This is part of what
I call 'secular ethics'.
Are
we not conditioned by our past karma that may not allow us to be loving
and compassionate? How can karma be transcended?
By acting with awareness.
How
can we live in awareness? Analyze! Let's take the example of Mahatma Gandhi. Physically,
he was frail. Although he was well educated, there are others who are
better educated than he was. Why then did he become a mahatma?
It was because of his heart. He did not act for himself or in his own
interest; that is karuna. Karuna, I think, is the main
element in becoming a good person. Stalin, Lenin, Mao Zedong were powerful
leaders. But they lacked karuna and became unpopular.
Compassion
automatically brings happiness and calmness. Then, even if you receive
disturbing news, it will be easier to take, as your mind is still. But
if you are agitated, even a minor happening will upset you greatly.
How
does one bring about calmness?
Hatred, jealousy and excessive attachment cause suffering and agitation.
I feel that, again, it is compassion that can help you overcome these
to move into a calm state of mind. Compassion is not being kind to your
friend. That is attachment because it is based on expectation. Karuna
is when you do something good without expectations, even without knowing
the other person. It is in realizing that the other person is also just
like me. That recognition is the basis on which you can develop karuna,
not only towards those around you but also towards your enemy. Normally,
when we think about our enemy, we think about harming him. Instead, try
to remember that the enemy is also a human being. He or she has the right
to be happy, just as you do. Talking about myself, maybe I too have some
enemies.
Are you talking about China? No, no! I am talking hypothetically. If one has an enemy, one would
want him to suffer. Whenever you feel hatred towards the enemy, think
of him as a human being. That is actual karuna because you are
feeling it for your enemy. You don't have the other's kindness to base
your compassion upon; the other is actually harming you! That is why I
say real karuna is unbiased. What we normally feel is biased karuna,
as it is mixed with attachment. Genuine karuna flows towards all
sentient beings, particularly towards your enemy. You
must keep in mind that developing karuna might not benefit the
other directly. If I try to develop karuna towards my enemy, he
might not even be aware of it. But it will immediately benefit me! How?
By calming my mind. On the other hand, if I keep thinking how awful everything
is, I will immediately lose my peace of mind.
And
that will help the enemy? It is not necessarily helping the enemy as much as harming yourself.
By changing your thoughts, you immediately get inner peace. Many people
also think that the practice of karuna benefits others and not
oneself. That sort of thinking is a grave mistake. It must be overcome
through awareness, which, as I mentioned earlier, comes from analyzing.
Even modern
medical researchers have come to the conclusion that peace of mind is
vital to good health. Experiments show that it is easier for those who
practice love and compassion to regain a peaceful state of mind after
being agitated.
In May this
year, I witnessed an experiment performed on a monk at Wisconsin University
who was subjected to a loud sound. It had little impact on him and he
was able to regain his composure without much difficulty. This goes to
prove that the practice of compassion actually calms you down considerably.
I am not
saying that compassion must be practiced because the Buddha taught it.
No. It must be practiced equally by the Buddhist, the Hindu, the Jain,
the Christian. It is part of the 'secular ethics' that I talk about.
There is nothing sacred or religious about aspiring to a calm mind.
People just need to realize that it is good for our health! My approach
is to promote values that enable the individual to have a calm mind.
Having
a calm mind actually works wonders. Recognizing this would help me want
to develop it. This
has to be made clear to every individual, even to children. It is important
to make the child realize that if he loses his temper, he will suffer.
If he is able to be more compassionate, he will feel more joy even while
playing. If you smile, life becomes sweeter. After all, if I smile at
you, you will smile back!
Don't
you ever experience anger? Oh
yes, I do. Negative emotions come and go. I do not think they remain within
me for long. If you let anger remain within you, it leads to ill-feeling
and hatred.
How do you
deal with anger? Through
my clear conviction about compassion. I think negative emotions are part
of my mind. It is quite natural to feel angry when faced with problems.
But you can change.
Can we say that awareness of your emotions helps in dealing
with them? If you are able to recognize the moment when anger arises, you will
be able to distinguish the part of your mind that is feeling anger. This
will divide your mind in two parts-one part will be feeling anger while
the other will be trying to observe. Therefore anger cannot dominate the
entire mind. You are able to recognize that anger is harmful and maybe
develop an antidote to it. View your anger objectively. Try to see the
positive side of the anger-causing person or event. All these ideas are
not Tibetan inventions, they are Nalanda inventions, your inventions!
(laughs uproariously) We Tibetans are the chelas (students) and
India is the guru. But today, our guru is getting too materialistic, perhaps
becoming too orthodox on one hand and too westernized on the other. I
think it is time that Indians get Indianized!
Since
you have been stressing 'secular values', would you not prescribe spiritual
practices because they owe allegiance to some tradition? I
would recommend what I call 'analytical meditation'. It is scientific,
as the main job of a scientist is to analyze. When you meditate, you
shift your focus from the external to the internal, emotional world.
That's
why the Buddha is said to be a great psychologist? Undoubtedly,
because he taught the science of the mind.
What
is the goal of human life? What are we born to achieve?
To be happy!
What
is the purpose of existence?
Happiness.
Happiness
for others or ourselves?
Take the example of a plant. What is the goal of its existence?
Service
to others? May
be the plant just is! It doesn't have fixed goals. It just grows. The
plant has no mind, so to speak. Animals also seem to have happiness as
their aim.
Nature never remains static; growth is essential for a human being. Why
do we always say 'Happy Birthday' and never 'Happy Deathday'? Because
we don't want to see the end. The human mind is attracted to growth, beginning
and freshness. Compassion thus is the force of growth and development
while anger is destruction.
If the goal of life is happiness, where does nirvana fit
in? Now
you are talking about another level. At the first level, you need to practice
basic human values. Then, you can talk of nirvana, which means permanent
cessation of suffering. So we come back to happiness!
How
can nirvana be made possible? (Laughs) It is possible because it is possible to eliminate all
negative emotions! When Buddha Sakyamuni experienced mahaparinirvana,
his mind ceased and he was freed from the karmic cycle of birth and
death. Nagarjuna says clearly that the pure mind has no counterforce,
and only those that have a counterforce can cease, like matter. The
mind, and space too, have no counterforce and so have no reason to cease.
In the case of other afflictive emotions, they might end if they have
strong positive counter forces. But in case of the mind, we cannot say
that it will come to an end, as it is difficult to find a strong antidote
that will hinder its existence, as in the case of space. Here, you could
argue by saying that in that case, could we put an end to loving-kindness
or compassion because they have strong counter-forces? On investigation,
we will realize that kindness and love usually accompany wisdom whereas
anger and hatred might seem strong but have no praman (proof/basis).
Everything that is good and right is the result of valid perception.
Based on this, the more you analyze, the more you will be able to hold
on to reality. If it is something wrong, however strong it appears,
as you analyze it, its falsehood will be revealed.
Suppose
you feel angry with a person called Gupta, ask yourself: 'Who is Gupta?'
'Is he a body, or is he a mind?' You will see that there is no answer.
Immediately, the feeling of hatred subsides, as it has not found a target.
But karuna (compassion) is different as it is not dependent on
identifying a target. Because of this, Buddhist philosophy refers to
karuna as the mind that does not perceive the object. Maitri
(amity), karuna and bodhichitta (the matured soul) do
not perceive any object. Did you get the point? (laughs)
Of course,
this is the Buddhist explanation and is very precise. I think it is
because of the richness of Sanskrit, which is highly developed in this
(metaphysical) aspect.
Aren't
the original Buddhist teachings in Pali? All the Nalanda masters wrote in Sanskrit but Vinaya and Abhidharma
teachings are in Pali.
The
Buddha was silent on the question of God. What about you? Why
did the Buddha not say anything about God? Because he talked about the law
of causality. Once you accept the law of cause and effect, the implication
is that there is no 'creator'. If the Buddha accepted the concept of a creator,
he would not have been silent; everything would have been God!
Who caused
the law of causality? About
that, the Buddha would say 'the mind', never God or dharmakaya
or even the Buddha himself.
How did the mind come about?
The source of mind is nature. The word that been used for existence
is 'interdependent arising'. Talking of God, who created God? There
is no point arguing. Dharmakeerti and Shantideva debate the existence
of God and reach the conclusion that if we believe in a benevolent creator,
how do we explain suffering? I remember a funny incident. In Tibetan
drama, criticism is allowed and even the Buddha is not spared. There
was this man acting on-stage and he was saying that he did not believe
in God. If God made us, he said, instead of putting both the eyes in
the front, one should be at the back! We would have been more efficient
that way. Jokes apart, the idea is not to disrespect any religion but
to analyze the nature of reality.
Do you
see any common ground between Buddhism and Hinduism? Historically, Buddha Sakyamuni was a Hindu. So I would like to call
Hinduism and Buddhism twin brothers. Then there are common practices
like samadhi
and vipassana.
The demarcation comes in the concept of shunyata. Whereas Hindus
believe in atma, Buddhists believe in anatma. In practicing
ahimsa, Jains are more thorough than either Buddhists or Hindus.
Aldous
Huxley talked of 'perennial philosophy'the
common mystical ground of all religions. Do you believe in that? That
is difficult to say. At one level, all religious traditions have the
same aimto transform
the individual into a positive being. At another level, theistic religions
do not have the concept of nirvana.
You travel
all over the world. Do you think that by and large, the world is moving
towards being more positive? I
would like to quote Britain's Queen Mother on this. On her 96th birthday,
I asked her the same question. She said that it was becoming better
because when she was young, for instance, nobody was concerned about
the environment, human rights or the right to self-determination. Today,
these have become universal values. When Gandhiji implemented ahimsa,
I think everyone took it as a sign of weakness. Now the entire world,
except perhaps China, accepts nonviolence and practices it, like Nelson
Mandela. India has not only given birth to great religious tradition
like Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism
but has also sheltered many, like Zoroastrianism, Islam,
Christianity.
The religious tolerance
we see around the world is also an Indian tradition.
Do you think
that China is changing? Yes,
I think China is also in the process of changing.
Any
message for the readers of Life
Positive? Life can be pleasant or miserable. To lead a fruitful life, and to
make it positive, practice analytical meditation.
And remember that calmness and compassion are an important part of human
life. I hope that all Life Positive readers will pay greater attention
to inner values.